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When solving expectation problems in probability, people sometime use recursive argument, but I have never seen a proof that this argument always works.

For example, what is the expected number of rolls of a fair six sided die until you roll "1"?

The recursive method says,

1) You have a $1/6$ probability of rolling "1" on the first roll and a $5/6$ chance of rolling the other five numbers.

2) If you roll any of the other five numbers you have to start over again, but now you start at roll 1 to try and get your "1".

If E is the expected number of rolls to get "1", the recursive method says,

$E = (1/6)*(1 roll) + (5/6)*[(E + 1) rolls]$

So,

$E = (1/6) + (5/6)(E + 1)$ and solving for $E$ we get $E = 6$.

There are also recursion methods for things like "What is the expected number of flips of 2 sided coin to get two consecutive heads", and other such problems involving questions like "how many rolls/flips/etc. to get somethings".

My question is:

Is there a rigorous mathematical proof that such recursion methods always work?

By rigorous I mean please start with the definition of expectation as the integral of the random var. over its sample space. From this definition, can you prove the recursion method? Even if you prove it for a specific example that would be OK too.

The issue I am having is that the recursion method seems "intuitive" (it could be rigorous, but no book has proved it that I've read!) and I do not see where the definition of expectation (as an integral) is used in the method. The recursion method seems to be "trick" books discuss, but never relate to the definition of expectation as the integral of the function.

Curiosity
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3 Answers3

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In probability theory, conditional expectations are rigorously defined so that, for instance, for a pair of random variables $X$ and $Y$ defined on the same probability space,

$$ \mathbb{E}\left[X\right]{}={}\mathbb{E}\left[\mathbb{E}\left[X \big| Y\right]\right]\,. $$

This is also true if "$Y$" above is replaced by a suitable collection of probabilistic "events" $A$ (if you are interested, the technical term for this collection is a Sigma-algebra), so that

$$ \mathbb{E}\left[\mathbb{E}\left[X \big| A\right]\right] $$

also makes sense. In any probabilistic experiment, therefore, computing expectations recursively simply requires identifying those mutually exclusive events on which to compute these conditional expectations on.

Edit:

A simple application of this can be seen as follows. For a discrete random variable $X$ describing an experiment that can either terminate or repeat (with suitable independence assumptions), we have

$$ \begin{eqnarray*} \mathbb{E}\left[X\right]{}={}\mathbb{E}\left[X \big| X\mbox{ ends}\right]P(X\mbox{ ends}){}+{}\mathbb{E}\left[X \big| X\mbox{ starts again}\right]P(X\mbox{ starts again})\,. \end{eqnarray*} $$

But, with suitable independence assumptions,

$$ \mathbb{E}\left[X \big| X\mbox{ starts again}\right]{}={}\mathbb{E}\left[X \right]\,, $$

which is why the recursion works.

More explicitly, using the example in the question, consider the following Measurable space.

Define outcomes, all of which are contained in the sampe space $\Omega$, as follows:

1) $\omega_i$ := roll first 1 on ith roll, for all $i\in\mathbb{N}$;

2) $\omega_{\infty}$ := never roll a 1;

Use the power set of $\Omega$, $P^{\Omega}$, as the preferred sigma-algebra, and assume a suitable probability measure. Assume a random variable defined on this probability space whose realisations are either the number of tosses before observing the first $1$ or 0. That is, for $\omega\in\Omega$:

$$ X(\omega){}={}\left\{\begin{array}{c} i\,,\mbox{ if }\omega=\omega_i \\ 0\,,\mbox{ otherwise} \end{array}\right. $$

Further, assume that $X$ can be written as the conditional sum of independent, identically distributed random variables $X_i$, each defined on the same probability space as $X$ as follows. For $\omega\in\Omega$,

$$ X_i(\omega){}={}\left\{\begin{array}{c} 1\,,\mbox{ if }\omega=\omega_i \\ 0\,,\mbox{ otherwise} \end{array}\right. $$

so that

$$ X(\omega)=\sum\limits_{i=1}^{\infty}{\textbf{1}}_{\left\{\omega=\omega_i\right\}}\left(X_i{}+{}\sum\limits_{j=1}^{i-1}(1{}-{}X_{j-1})\right)\,. $$

Note that, due to the independence and identically distributed nature of the $X_i$, we must have

$$ \mathbb{E}\left[X\right]=\mathbb{E}\left[ \sum\limits_{i=j+1}^{\infty}{\textbf{1}}_{\left\{\omega=\omega_i\right\}}\left(X_i{}+{}\sum\limits_{r=j+1}^{i-1}(1{}-{}X_r)\right) \bigg|\, X_k=0 \mbox{ for all }k\leq j \right]\,. $$

We are done, for we must have

$$ \begin{eqnarray*} \mathbb{E}\left[X\right]&{}={}&\mathbb{E}\left[X{\textbf{1}}_{\left\{\omega=\omega_1\right\}}\right]{}+{}\mathbb{E}\left[X{\textbf{1}}_{\left\{\omega\neq\omega_1\right\}}\right]\newline &{}={}& 1.P\left({\left\{\omega=\omega_1\right\}}\right)\newline &&{}+{}\mathbb{E}\left[ \sum\limits_{i=2}^{\infty}{\textbf{1}}_{\left\{\omega=\omega_i\right\}}\left(X_i{}+{}\sum\limits_{r=2}^{i-1}(1{}-{}X_r)\right) \bigg|\, X_k=0 \mbox{ for all }k\leq 1 \right]P\left({\left\{\omega\neq\omega_1\right\}}\right)\newline &{}={}& P\left({\left\{\omega=\omega_1\right\}}\right){}+{}\mathbb{E}\left[X\right]P\left({\left\{\omega\neq\omega_1\right\}}\right) \end{eqnarray*} $$

and, therefore, recursion.

ki3i
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  • But, my question is can you prove the recursion method (even for a nontrivial example) from the definition of expectation as the integral of the random variable over its sample space. The problem is that I only know undergrad probability (where the definition of expectation is what I said) and the conditional expectation material you are referencing seems to only be found in graduate advanced courses. – Curiosity Jan 08 '15 at 18:44
  • @Curiosity, I see. Please see edit. – ki3i Jan 08 '15 at 19:31
  • What is the event "X starts again"? By this I mean can you please describe in an explicit way which elements of the sample space belong to the set "X starts again". You can even do this for an explicit nontrivial example. To be precise, you can (or anyone reading) explicitly state the sample space in a concrete mathematical way (not just with words like the set of all outcomes) and describe the set "X starts again" by giving a criterion for an element of the sample space to belong to the event? This to me will make everything precise. Similarly for the event "X ends". – Curiosity Jan 08 '15 at 20:12
  • @Curiosity, For any experiment you can describe where recursion is used for expectations (e.g. flipping coins till the 1st head occurs) the sample space can, and must, be partitioned into two, distinct "Events" (i.e. groups of outcomes): those that cause the experiment to end (e.g. the 1st head is observed) and those that cause the experiment to restart (e.g. a tail is observed and, therefore, another flip is needed to observe the 1st head). These are the events described by my shorthand. "...starts again" must also be justified by probabilistic independence (e.g. independent coin flips) – ki3i Jan 08 '15 at 20:44
  • @Curiosity, if you require more rigour I am quite sure you need the concepts I outlined in the earlier part of my response (which requires me to define probability spaces, conditional expectation, and the implications of probabilistic independence); what you are asking about is really a corollary in this sense. – ki3i Jan 08 '15 at 20:48
  • I do know undergrad probability, so I know the definitions mentioned. All I want is (for nontrivial example) 1) state in precise mathematical way the sample space $\Omega$, not only in words, 2) define the random variable in a precise way as a function on the sample space (give a "formula"), for an explicit $x \in \Omega$, state the value $X(x)$. 3) Give an explicit criterion for $x \in \Omega$ to be in the subset $F \subseteq \Omega$ where $F=$ the subset "X starts again" $\subseteq \Omega$ (also for "X ends"). 4) Using the definition $E(X) = \int_\Omega X$, prove recursion. – Curiosity Jan 08 '15 at 21:41
  • @Curiosity, Please see edit, thanks. – ki3i Jan 08 '15 at 23:45
  • @ki3i The events A you talked about - Should they be mutually exclusive and exhaustive, or will only mutually exclusive suffice? – Ginger bread Jan 03 '25 at 05:29
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The question sounds very strange and reflected a poor understanding of measure theory. You should study the definition of a martingale.

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We have a sample space, $\Omega$, consisting of all possible outcomes. Explicitly, $\Omega$ consists of all possible infinite strings of die rolls. We can write $\Omega = \Omega_1 \sqcup \Omega_2$, where $\Omega_1$ is the event that the first roll is a 1 and $\Omega_2$ is the event that the first roll is not a 1.

Let $X$ be the random variable which tells you how many rolls you need to get a 1. Then:

$$E(X) = \int_{\Omega}X\, d\mu = \int_{\Omega_1}X\, d\mu + \int_{\Omega_2}X\, d\mu$$

Now, on $\Omega_1$, $X$ is equal to the constant function $1$. So $\int_{\Omega_1}X = \mu(\Omega_1) = 1/6$.

Now for the recursion. We basically want to show:

$$\int_{\Omega_2}X\, d\mu = \frac{5}{6}\int_{\Omega}(X + 1)\, d\mu$$

To show this, notice there is a map $\phi:\Omega_2 \rightarrow \Omega$ which is just 'forget the first roll'. We have:

$$\int_{\Omega_2} (X \circ \phi) \, d\mu = \int_{\Omega} X\, d(\phi\mu)$$

Now, the pushforward measure $\phi\mu$ is just equal to $\frac{5}{6}\mu$, since $\mu(\phi^{-1}(A)) = \frac{5}{6}\mu(A)$ for any $A \subset \Omega$. And $(X \circ \phi) = X - 1$, since 'forget the first roll' subtracts one from how many rolls it takes. So we get:

$$\int_{\Omega_2}X - 1\, d\mu = \int_{\Omega} X \, \frac{5}{6}d\mu$$

Alex Zorn
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