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The terms of the sequence A276123, defined by $a_0=a_1=a_2=1$ and $$a_n=\dfrac{(a_{n-1}+1)(a_{n-2}+1)}{a_{n-3}}\;,$$ are all integers (it's easy to prove that for all $n\geq2$, $a_n=\frac{9-3(-1)^n}{2}a_{n-1}-a_{n-2}-1$).

But is it also true for the sequence A276175 defined by $a_0=a_1=a_2=a_3=1$ and $$a_n=\dfrac{(a_{n-1}+1)(a_{n-2}+1)(a_{n-3}+1)}{a_{n-4}} \;\;?$$

Update : I crossposted to MO.

  • If you see what they've written under "comments" in your OEIS link, it is clear that it is not known. It has been checked by computer for the first $40$ terms. – Arthur Aug 27 '16 at 07:13
  • Yes Arthur, I read it. This sequence has been entered recently in the OEIS... Perhaps a member of this forum will have an idea to solve the problem ? –  Aug 27 '16 at 07:32
  • That's strange for me. The sequence does not seem to be hardly to calculate. So why has it only been checked till $n=40$? – S. M. Roch Aug 27 '16 at 13:53
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    @S.M.Roch my guess is that it grows doubly exponentially ($a_n$ grows like $b^{c^n}$ for some constants $b,c$) – mercio Aug 27 '16 at 14:33
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    @S.M.Roch. I made a program : the decimal expansion of $a_{40}$ contains $321865971$ digits. –  Aug 27 '16 at 15:19
  • You can estimate the number of digits by the following regression-equation: $ \operatorname{numdigits}_{10}(n) \approx 10^{(-0.934753465442+ 0.236062698066 \cdot n)} \qquad \qquad $ ( which was taken by regression on the logarithms of the first $a_k$ (k=6..40)). Using the fact, that the logarithms of the giganzic $a_n$ for $n>30$ can be estimated using the logarithm of the recurrence-formula and assuming, that for, say, $n>20$ the $ +1 $ in the $(a_n+1)$-parentheses can be neglected then the logarithmic estimate of the $a_n$ becomes a simple additive recurrence formula on logarithms. – Gottfried Helms Aug 28 '16 at 22:15

2 Answers2

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Yes, $(a_n)$ is a sequence of integers.

To prove this we first need to study some auxiliary sequences that satisfy a polynomial recurrence relation (unlike $(a_n)$ which has a rational fraction as its recurrence).

Consider the sequences $(b_n)$ of positive reals satisfying the recurrence relation $b_nb_{n+4} = b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3} + 1$.

It turns out we can express $b_{n+8}$ as a polynomial in $b_n, \ldots, b_{n+7}$ :

Since $b_{n+1}b_{n+5} \equiv b_{n+2}b_{n+6} \equiv b_{n+3}b_{n+7} \equiv 1 \pmod {b_{n+4}}$ and $b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3} \equiv -1 \pmod {b_{n+4}}$, we have $b_{n+5}b_{n+6}b_{n+7} \equiv -1 \pmod {b_{n+4}}$, which suggests the existence of a formula for $b_{n+8}$.

With this roadmap, we can write

$(b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3})(b_{n+5}b_{n+6}b_{n+7}+1) \\ = (b_{n+1}b_{n+5})(b_{n+2}b_{n+6})(b_{n+3}b_{n+7}) + (b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3}) \\ = (b_{n+2}b_{n+3}b_{n+4}+1)(b_{n+3}b_{n+4}b_{n+5}+1)(b_{n+4}b_{n+5}b_{n+6}+1)+(b_nb_{n+4}-1) \\ = b_{n+4}.F(b_{n+i})$

where $F$ is some big polynomial. And finally,

$(b_{n+5}b_{n+6}b_{n+7}+1) = (b_{n+5}b_{n+6}b_{n+7}+1)(b_nb_{n+4} - b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3}) \\ = b_{n+4}(b_nb_{n+5}b_{n+6}b_{n+7}+b_n - F(b_{n+i})) = b_{n+4} G(b_{n+i})$.

And so, $b_{n+8} = G(b_{n+i})$. This means that if $b_0, \ldots, b_7 \in R$ for some subring $R$ of $\Bbb R$, then the whole sequence is in $R$.


Now to link back to the original sequence.

Given such a sequence $(b_n)$, we define a sequence $(a_n)$ by $a_n = b_nb_{n+1}b_{n+2}$.

This sequence satisfies $a_na_{n+4} = (b_n b_{n+1}b_{n+2})(b_{n+4}b_{n+5}b_{n+6}) \\ = (b_n b_{n+4})(b_{n+1} b_{n+5})(b_{n+2} b_{n+6}) = (b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3}+1)(b_{n+2}b_{n+3}b_{n+4}+1)(b_{n+3}b_{n+4}b_{n+5}+1) \\ = (a_{n+1}+1)(a_{n+2}+1)(a_{n+3}+1)$.

Finally, taking $b_0 \ldots b_7 = \frac 12, 4, \frac 12, \frac 12, 4, \frac 12, 4, 18$, we obtain a sequence $(b_n)$ with terms in $\Bbb Z[\frac 12]$, with the corresponding $(a_n)$ sequence $1,1,1,1,8,36, \ldots$

Since the recurrence relation is symmetric, it can go backwards as well as forward, hence the ring $R_n = \Bbb Z[b_n, \ldots, b_{n+7}]$ is independant of $n$. There is no hope of finding $8$ consecutive integer values in our sequence $b_n$.

This excludes the possibility of any denominator occuring that is not a power of $2$. We will use $2$-adic analysis to exclude this last possibility below


Note that using this definition,

$a_na_{n+2}/a_{n+1}(a_{n+1}+1) = b_nb_{n+2}b_{n+4}/(b_{n+1}b_{n+2}b_{n+3}+1) = b_{n+2}$,

and so to go in the other direction you have to define $(b_n)$ from $(a_n)$ with $b_n = a_{n-2}a_n/a_{n-1}(a_{n-1}+1)$. Then, once again the recurrence relation of $(b_n)$ follows from that of $(a_n)$.

This shows that for any such rational sequence $(a_n)$, there is a corresponding rational sequence $(b_n)$, and so $(a_n)$ is in a finitely generated subring of $\Bbb Q$.


Addendum to clarify how to prove that the sequence $(a_n)$ stays in the 2-adic integers (with no deeper algebraic investigation of the sequences)

Experimenting with the recursion reveals that the behaviour of $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ has a pattern that approximately repeats every 11 steps. If you try to compute $a_n$ in the $2$-adics naively, no matter which transition map you use (the recursion on the $(a_n)$, on the $(b_n)$ or any polynomial map on the $(b_n)$) you end up losing precision at a steady rate.

To avoid losing precision, we have to find 2-adics neighbourhoods of the sequence where the transition maps are homeomorphisms, and even better, some iterate that are local isometries for one appropriate basis of $\Bbb Q_2^4$. To do so we have to compute the derivatives of the iterates of the transition maps and check that its characteristic polynomial has coefficient in $\Bbb Z_2$, and finally that the determinant is invertible. I will choose to work directly on the initial recurrence on $(a_n)$.

Let $f : \Bbb Q_2^4 \mapsto \Bbb Q_2^4$ be the partial map $(a_0,a_1,a_2,a_3) \mapsto (a_1,a_2,a_3,(a_1+1)(a_2+1)(a_3+1)/a_0)$.
Given a point $x = (a_0,a_1,a_2,a_3)$, assuming $f^{\circ 11}(x)$ is well-defined, we can compute its Jacobian matrix $J^{11}_x = (df_i/da_j)$, or $J^{11}_x = (da_{i+11}/da_j)$ if we consider $a_4,\ldots,a_{14}$ as functions of $a_0,a_1,a_2,a_3$.

If $\det(J^{11}_x) \neq 0$ then the iterate $f^{\circ 11}$ induces an isomorphism on the tangent spaces, and if the coefficients of the characteristic polynomial are integers, then there is a basis of the tangent space (forgetting about their different base point for a moment) where the matrix has all its entries in $\Bbb Z_2$. That is, $J^{11}_x$ is similar to a matrix in $GL_4(\Bbb Z_2)$.

As we can expect from experimentation, this does turn out to be true on points $(a_{11k},\ldots,a_{11k+3})$ of the sequence, and as luck would have it, there is a simple such basis that works simultaneously for all the points of the form $x = (a_{11k},a_{11k+1},a_{11k+2},a_{11k+3})$.
Concretely, we see the $(a_i)$ as constants, we use $f^{\circ 11}$ to map $(a_0+x_0, a_1+2x_1, a_2+2x_2, a_3+x_3)$ to $(a_{11}+y_0, a_{12}+2y_1, a_{13}+2y_2, a_{14}+y_3)$. This induces a partial map $g : \Bbb Q_2^4 \to \Bbb Q_2^4$, $(x_i) \mapsto (y_i)$ sending $0$ to $0$ and where the Jacobian at the origin $J(g)_0 \in GL_4(\Bbb Z_2)$ is an invertible matrix with $2$-adic integer coefficients.

The next step is to determine a neighbourhood $N(e) = (2^e \Bbb Z_2)^4$ of the origin where the $g|_{N(e)} : N(e) \to N(e)$ is an isometry. Here we can afford to only keep track of the order of all the higher-order terms naively. Any increase in $e$ (the lower bound on the $2$-valuation of the $x_i$) results in at least a two-fold increase in the higher-order terms, so if we choose $e$ large enough, the higher-order terms appearing in the $y_i$ will eventually stay larger then $e$. Once this happens, we have a local isometry.

To perform the operations, we use $x_i = O(2^e)$, write $\bar x$ for the $2$-valuation of $x$, and naively compute additions, multiplications, and inverses like so :

$(a + \sum a_i x_i + O(2^u)) + (b + \sum b_i x_i + O(2^v)) = ((a+b) + \sum (a_i + b_i) x_i + O(2^{\min\{u,v\}}))$

$(a + \sum a_i x_i + O(2^u)) (b + \sum b_i x_i + O(2^v)) = ((ab) + \sum (a_i b + a b_i) x_i + O(2^{\min\{ \bar{a_i}+\bar{b_j}+2e, \bar a + u, \bar b + v, \bar {a_i}+v+e, \bar {b_i}+u+e, u+v\}}))$

$(a + \sum a_i x_i + O(2^u))^{-1} = (a^{-1} - \sum a_i a^{-2} x_i + O(2^{\min \{u-2\bar a,2u-3\bar a,2\bar{a_i}+2e-3\bar a\}}))$

Using this technique we can prove that $g$ is an isometry when restricted to $N(8)$.

Then it is a matter of checking that $f^{\circ 11}$ keeps sending neighbourhoods to neighbourhoods isometrically until we get back to the starting point, which happens after $128$ steps.

After doing this and checking that the sequence stays an integer during all of the 1408 individual steps, we have proved that any sequence starting close enough to $(1,1,1,1)$ will generate a sequence of $2$-adic integers.

The size $2^{8}$ for my neighbourhoods may not be optimal, and the amount of computation needed to get back to the starting point only depends linearly on the size, so it's not that important to get the best possible.

The observation that we repeat so quickly suggests that there are 3 hidden invariants who cut out the curves that each sequence traces inside the neighbourhoods : $a_{11k}$ modulo $2^n$ determines $a_{11k+1}$ and $a_{11k+2}$ modulo $2^{n+1}$ and $a_{11k+3}$ modulo $2^n$


Additionally, when I looked at polynomial maps on octuplets $(b_0,\ldots,b_7) \mapsto (b_{11},\ldots,b_{18})$ instead, I found that the Jacobians were $x^8+x^4 = (x+1)^4x^4$ modulo $2$. I didn't look for a nice basis there, but having 4 additional even eigenvalues should imply that if you start with a nearby random octuplet, it should get attracted closer and closer to the octuplet of a "real" sequence of b_n generated by 4 inputs and the original relation. So those polynomial maps are also remarkably stable.

mercio
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    one might wonder if there is an integer $m$ such that $a_{n+m}$ is a polynomial in the $a_{n+i}$ for $0 \le i < m$. If so, then $m > 55$ because the subsequence $(1,2,1,2)$ is in the middle of a sequence of integers of length $55$ but bordered with nonintegers on both sides. I wouldn't expect such an $m$ to exist. – mercio Aug 29 '16 at 14:58
  • One other neat observation about the polynomial map $\phi : \Bbb Q_2^8 \to \Bbb Q_2^8$ is that all the partial derivatives of $\phi^{\circ n}$ evaluated on our sequence seem to be globally bounded (their $2$-valuation have a minimum, iirc $-5$). If you prove this, this maybe gives a weird alternative proof : iterate $\phi$ until you loop back to the original octuplet but with an error small enough, say a $O(2^8)$, then the difference between the sequence and its translated sequence is a $O(8)$ forever, which proves that $(b_n)$ mod $8$ is periodic etc. – mercio Aug 31 '16 at 13:48
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    I don't understand why the $a_i $ are integers (as opposed to just $2$-integers). Could you be more precise there? Thanks! – darij grinberg Feb 22 '19 at 22:17
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    In order to have $a_n$ integer, one would need to demonstrate that the sum of the $2$-adic valuations of three consecutive $b_j$ is non-negative. If it can be shown that $v_2(b_n)$ is periodic (period $11$ apparently), then we are done, because, it would suffice to check the $11$ first sums. – René Gy Feb 24 '19 at 21:39
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    @darijgrinberg It seems that this "detail" is hidden in the paragraph about the $17725$ octuples modul 8. I read from this that mercio performed an exhaustive (computer) search during which, among others, $v_2(b_n)$ turned out to remain bounded and $a_n=b_nb_{n+1}b_{n+2}$ an integer. – Hagen von Eitzen Feb 28 '19 at 04:33
  • @darijgrinberg Hagen is right. I am not sure if I still have the details somewhere, but the jist of it is that there should be an "island of stability" for the polynomial around the sequence. you can observe it experimentally by adding random multiples of $8$ (hopefully it works, if not try $16$ or maybe I was thinking about the precision on the $b_i$s, I am not sure anymore) to all the entries between each iteration. You can then do an in-depth computer search to prove the observation (the tricky part is making sure you don't miss any octuplet). – mercio Feb 28 '19 at 13:49
  • Though if I were to try this again I would look at the $(a_n)$ sequence directly. After all, there are several possible polynomials producing the $(b_i)$ sequence (because of the smaller recurrence relation between the $b_i$) and I never really explicitly pinpointed one so that paragraph about octuplets is pretty vague. – mercio Feb 28 '19 at 13:54
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    @mercio: What do you mean by "octuplets"? The $b_n$ not being integers, it is strange to look at them mod $8$; are you considering their remainders (maybe upon mutliplication by $32$ or something) or their $2$-adic valuations? And you are saying that $8$ consecutive remainders (or valuations) always uniquely determine the next one? – darij grinberg Feb 28 '19 at 15:53
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    well two $2$-adic numbers $a$ and $b$ are equivalent modulo $8$ if there is a $2$-adic integer (so a $2$-adic number whose $2$-valuation is positive or zero) $c$ such that $a-b = 8c$. The $8$ here and in the paragraph talking about the sequence modulo $8$ comes from something I observed experimentally : the stability of the sequence is not insanely coincidental : if you pick numbers $2$-adically close enough to the original sequence, you end up with a slightly different but still stable sequence. – mercio Feb 28 '19 at 16:31
  • The octuplets are $8$ consecutive terms of the sequence $(b_n)$. The $8$ of octuplet has nothing to do with the $8$ in mod $8$. I use it because if you use the polyonmial recurrence, then you get the $9$-th consecutive term as a polynomial in the $8$ ones, so you can view it as a polynomial map sending an octuplet $(b_n,\ldots,b_{n+7})$ to the next octuplet $(b_{n+1},\ldots,b_{n+8})$ and then the question is asking about the behaviour of the generated sequence. – mercio Feb 28 '19 at 16:35
  • Since this polynomial map was what proved that $a_n,b_n \in \Bbb Z[\frac 12]$ I was really focused on it at the time, but now with a step back, it may not be particularly fruitful to prove the nice $2$-adic behaviour of $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ compared to the original (non-polynomial) recurrence relations for $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ – mercio Feb 28 '19 at 16:38
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    I'd like to point out that the $b_n$ sequence comes from a cluster algebra -- specifically, from the 4-vertex quiver with an arrow $i \to j$ whenever $i > j$ -- and thus $b_n$ is Laurent in $b_0$, $b_1$, $b_2$, $b_3$. People have noticed before that cluster recurrences have unusual $p$-adic stability -- see Kedlaya and Propp https://arxiv.org/abs/math/0409535 and Glick https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.6881 , but I don't think there is a systematic understanding of it. – David E Speyer Feb 28 '19 at 17:42
  • I am still not getting it. The polynomial map may be nice if you are working with $2$-adic integers, but the $b_i$ are not $2$-adic integers in the case that we need to obtain the starting values of $a_i$ given in the original post. Also, am I seeing it right that this proof requires a computer? – darij grinberg Mar 01 '19 at 03:21
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    @darijgrinberg: I think one way to understand the claim is this: consider the directed graph whose vertices are $8$-tuples of $2$-adic valuations, with an edge from one tuple to another if we can find $b_0,\ldots,b_7\in\mathbb{Z}[\frac{1}{2}]$ with the valuations given by the first tuple and so that defining $b_8=G(b_0,\ldots,b_7)$, then $b_1,\ldots,b_8$ have the valuations of the second. Note that there can be multiple edges leaving a vertex. Then the claim is that starting from $(-1,2,-1,-1,2,-1,2,1)$ there are only finitely many vertices (17255, apparently) we can reach by directed paths. – Sam Hopkins Mar 01 '19 at 13:09
  • But the only finitely many (17255) of them is empirical? We don't have a proof that there are no others? – John Machacek Mar 01 '19 at 21:25
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    Yes, the proof absolutely requires a computer. So I tried redoing it and modulo $8$ didn't work, however modulo $16$ worked (giving a graph with 1.9 million vertices) pending correctness of my algorithm to get all the possible octuplets from one octuplet. the 17255 might have been for another strategy of taking neighbourhoods (by keeping 3 or 4 digits of precision on the inputs, instead of taking a global mod 8 neighbourhoods) – mercio Mar 01 '19 at 22:33
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    @mercio: Please update claims in your answer accordingly. Personally I'm surprised that your "mod 16" approach works at all, since the recurrence on 2-aidc numbers seems to quickly exhaust any initially given precision. For example, the initially given precision $O(2^{100000})$ vanishes around 157148-th term. Up until then we do have $-2\leq \nu_2(b_n)\leq 3$ though. – Max Alekseyev May 07 '23 at 12:29
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    @MaxAlekseyev I apologize for the delay, I wanted to start from scratch to avoid repeating a possible old mistake. You are right that this deserved some elaboration since a naive computation has no chance of success. I hope I got the details correct, please let me know if there are further issues or if you can't reproduce the methodology. – mercio Jun 22 '23 at 15:57
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Following up on a comment by David E. Speyer (indicating that the $b_n$ sequence arises from the cluster algebra $\mathcal{A}(Q)$ associated to a certain quiver $Q$), I would like to mention that the $a_n$ sequence arises from the Poisson cluster variety $\mathcal{X}(Q)$ associated to the same quiver $Q$. Moreover, the relation $$a_n = b_n b_{n+1} b_{n+2}$$ explained in mercio's answer is an instance of (the pullback of) Fock-Goncharov's $\textit{cluster ensemble}$ map $p: \mathcal{A}(Q) \to \mathcal{X}(Q)$. This point of view can be applied to show that, for instance, the sequence $(c_n)$ defined by $c_0 = 1, c_1 = 2, c_2 = 6, c_3 = 42$ and for $n \geq 4$, $$c_n = \frac{(1+c_{n-1})(1+c_{n-2})(1+c_{n-3})}{c_{n-4}},$$ consists entirely of (positive) integers (the $c_n$ sequence consists of values in a so-called Y-frieze pattern associated to $Q$).

Perhaps (with a bit more work) this point of view could help settle (in the affirmative) the OP's question.