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$$ \exists x \exists y \exists z (x\neq y \land x \neq z \land y \neq z \land P(x) \land P(y) \land P(z)) $$

I would translate the above sentence as, "There exist 3 different elements (x,y,z) for which P(x), P(y), and P(z) are true."

Does this mean at least 3 elements or exactly 3 elements? I think it's at least 3.

If so, how do I formally write exactly 3 elements?

ryang
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  • I may be rusty at this. $\exists!a$ means "there exists a unique a" so I'd think $\exists ! {x,y,z} (x\neq y \land x \neq z \land y \neq z \land P(x) \land P(y) \land P(z))$ would mean "there exists a unique set of three elements so that ...". That should do it shouldn't it? If there were four such elements there'd be another set of three we could make... – fleablood Sep 21 '16 at 22:25

6 Answers6

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$P$ holds for at least three elements: $$\exists x\exists y\exists z\ [x\ne y\land x\ne z\land y\ne z\land P(x)\land P(y)\land P(z)]$$ $P$ holds for at most three elements: $$\forall w\forall x\forall y\forall z\ [P(w)\land P(x)\land P(y)\land P(z)\to (w=x\lor w=y\lor w=z\lor x=y\lor x=z\lor y=z)]$$ $P$ holds for exactly three elements: $$\exists x\exists y\exists z\forall w\ [x\ne y\land x\ne z\land y\ne z\land (P(w)\leftrightarrow(w=x\lor w=y\lor w=z))]$$

bof
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$$ \exists x \exists y \exists z (x\neq y \land x \neq z \land y \neq z \land P(x) \land P(y) \land P(z)) \tag1$$

I would translate the above sentence as, "There exist 3 different elements (x,y,z) for which P(x), P(y), and P(z) are true." Does this mean at least 3 elements or exactly 3 elements?

Sentence $(1)$ has not actually identified any particular object; $x,y,z$ are just dummy variables (rather than constants or free variables).

Sentence $(1)$ means that $P(x)$ is true of three particular/distinct/different objects.

Being true of three distinct objects does not preclude being true of seven distinct objects, so does not imply being true of exactly three objects, which can be formalised as $$∃a\:∃b\:∃c\:\Big(a\ne b\,∧\, a\ne c\,∧\,b\ne c\,∧\,∀s\,\big(P(s)\,↔\,s= a\,\lor\, s=b\,\lor\, s=c\big)\Big).\tag2$$

Thus, Sentence $(1)$ means that $P(x)$ is true of at least three objects.

Incidentally, Sentence $(1)$ is logically equivalent to this more concise sentence: $$∀a\:∀b\:∃s\:\big(s\ne a\,∧\,s\ne b\,∧\,P(s)\big).\tag{1b}$$

ryang
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It says "at least three elements". Imagine a structure with four elements in which $P$ is true for all of them; clearly the sentence is satisfied in this structure.

A quick way to say "precisely three" is "at least three, and not at least four".

Mees de Vries
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Something like $$\forall a\,\big(P(a)\Rightarrow (a=x)\vee (a=y)\vee (a=z)\big)$$ says that the property $P(a)$ is only satisfied if $a=x,y,z$.

  • Notice that when $P(x)$ denotes x=x+1 (so, $P(x)$ is categorically false), the OP's given sentence is false whereas your suggested sentence is true. – ryang Jun 03 '23 at 09:08
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First establish a set B to which $x,y,z$ may belong then

\begin{equation} \exists A\subset B\,(\,\vert A\vert=3 \land (\wedge_{x\in A}P(x)\,) \end{equation}

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Okay, no-ones suggesting this and maybe it isn't valid but...

isn't $\exists ! a$ meaning there exists a unique $a$ acceptable, and....

isn't $\exists \{a,b,c\}$ meaning there exists a set f three elements acceptable?

If so (and maybe those notations aren't acceptable) wouldn't $\exists! \{x,y,z\} ...$ do it? There is a unique set of three elements where the conditions hold so there are three elements. If there were 4 or more elements where the conditions hold and we can make multiple different sets of 3 where the conditions hold. But as any set of three must be unique, there can only be those three elements.

fleablood
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    $\exists!a$ is perfectly fine notation, but it's in an extension of first-order logic, or it's an abbreviation for something in first-order logic. I may be wrong but I assumed the OP wanted a formula in the primitive notation of standart first-order logic. As for your notation $\exists{a,b,c},$ I don't think it's standard (at least I've never seen it before), and there is the problem that ${a,b,c}$ does not necessarily denote a set of three distinct elements. – bof Sep 21 '16 at 22:45
  • Valid comments. – fleablood Sep 22 '16 at 06:15