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Let $A$ be a $C^*$-algebra, $\phi$ a state on $A$, and $M\geq 1$. Define $U=\{b\in A:\|b\|\leq M\phi(b^*b)^\frac{1}{2}\}$.

Based on some preliminary exploration, it seems that there always exists a bound $R>0$ s.t. for all $a\in A$ with $\|a\|\geq M\phi(a^*a)^\frac{1}{2}$,

$d(a,U)\leq R(\|a\|-M\phi(a^*a)^\frac{1}{2})$. However, I can't find the right approach for a proof. Any ideas? If not, any ideas for a counterexample?

Miles Gould
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This is not true. For example, $A = L^\infty([0, 1])$, $\phi$ is the state on $A$ induced by the Lebesgue measure, and $M = 1$. Then $U$ consists of those $f \in L^\infty([0, 1])$ s.t. $|f|$ is a.s. constant. Moreover, all $f \in A$ satisfy $\|f\| \geq M\phi(f^\ast f)^{\frac{1}{2}}$. Now, for any $0 < \epsilon < 1$, one can pick $X \subset [0, 1]$ of measure $\epsilon$ and let $f = 1_X$. Then $d(f, U) = \frac{1}{2}$ but $\|f\| - M\phi(f^\ast f)^{\frac{1}{2}} = 1 - \sqrt{\epsilon}$. Hence, for any $R > 0$ the bound will be violated as $\epsilon \to 1$.

Remark: I won't write down the details here since it's really just an annoyingly long computation, but the same $A$ and $\phi$ work as a counterexample with any $M \geq 1$. The contradiction again comes from choosing $f = 1_X$ with $X \subset [0, 1]$ of measure $\epsilon$, but with $\epsilon \to \frac{1}{M}$ from below.


This is not true even when $A$ is finite-dimensional and $\phi$ is pure. Indeed, let $A = M_2(\mathbb{C})$ and $\phi((a_{ij})) = a_{11}$. Let $M = 1$, in which case all $a \in A$ satisfy $\|a\| \geq M\phi(a^\ast a)^{\frac{1}{2}}$. We first consider what the elements of $U$ are. Clearly, $x \in U$ iff $|x| \in U$. Now, let the eigenvalues of $|x|$ be $\lambda_1, \lambda_2$, with $\lambda_1 \geq \lambda_2 \geq 0$; and let the corresponding normalized eigenvectors be $v_1, v_2$. Then $\|x\| = \lambda_1$ and $\phi(x^\ast x)^{\frac{1}{2}} = \sqrt{\lambda_1^2|\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle|^2 + \lambda_2^2|\langle v_2, e_1 \rangle|^2}$. Multiplying $v_1, v_2$ by complex phase factors if necessary, we may assume $\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle, \langle v_2, e_1 \rangle \geq 0$. Thus, $x \in U$ iff,

$$\lambda_1^2 \leq \lambda_1^2\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle^2 + \lambda_2^2\langle v_2, e_1 \rangle^2$$

Our goal now is to lower bound $d(p, U)$ for a rank-one projection $p$. Write $p = |v\rangle\langle v|$ for some unit vector $v$. Per this paper, we have, for any $y \in U$, $\||p| - |y|\|_{HS} \leq \sqrt{2}\|p - y\|_{HS}$, so $\|p - |y|\| \leq 2\|p - y\|$. As $y \in U$ implies $|y| \in U$, we thus have,

$$d(p, U) \geq \frac{1}{2}d(p, U_+)$$

Fix $x \in U_+$. We shall retain the previous notations on $\lambda_i$ and $v_i$. Fix $\frac{1}{2} > \epsilon > 0$. Now, we have three cases,

  1. $\|x\| < 1 - \epsilon$ or $\|x\| > 1 + \epsilon$. In this case, we have $\|p - x\| > \epsilon$ as $p$ has norm $1$.
  2. $\lambda_2 > \epsilon$. Per Eckart-Young-Mirsky theorem, $\|p - x\| > \epsilon$ as well, as $p$ has rank one.
  3. Assuming both $\lambda_1 = \|x\| \in [1 - \epsilon, 1 + \epsilon]$ and $\lambda_2 \leq \epsilon$. In this case, we have,

$$\lambda_1^2 \leq \lambda_1^2\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle^2 + \lambda_2^2\langle v_2, e_1 \rangle^2 \leq \lambda_1^2\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle^2 + \epsilon^2$$

Dividing by $\lambda_1^2$ on both sides,

$$1 \leq \langle v_1, e_1 \rangle^2 + \frac{\epsilon^2}{\lambda_1^2} \leq \langle v_1, e_1 \rangle^2 + \frac{\epsilon^2}{(1 - \epsilon)^2} \leq \langle v_1, e_1 \rangle^2 + 4\epsilon^2$$

So $\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle \geq \sqrt{1 - 4\epsilon^2}$. Hence,

$$\|v_1 - e_1\|^2 = 2 - 2\langle v_1, e_1 \rangle \leq 2 - 2\sqrt{1 - 4\epsilon^2}$$

Therefore,

$$\|x - |e_1\rangle\langle e_1|\| \leq \lambda_2 + |1 - \lambda_1| + 2\|v_1 - e_1\| \leq 2\epsilon + 2\sqrt{2 - 2\sqrt{1 - 4\epsilon^2}}$$

Thus,

$$d(p, U_+) \geq \min\left\{\epsilon, \|p - |e_1\rangle\langle e_1|\| - 2\epsilon - 2\sqrt{2 - 2\sqrt{1 - 4\epsilon^2}}\right\}$$

We have,

$$\|p - |e_1\rangle\langle e_1|\|^2 = \|(p - |e_1\rangle\langle e_1|)^2\| \geq \frac{1}{2}\operatorname{Tr}((p - |e_1\rangle\langle e_1|)^2) = 1 - |\langle v, e_1 \rangle|^2$$

So,

$$d(p, U) \geq \frac{1}{2}d(p, U_+) \geq \frac{1}{2}\min\left\{\epsilon, \sqrt{1 - |\langle v, e_1 \rangle|^2} - 2\epsilon - 2\sqrt{2 - 2\sqrt{1 - 4\epsilon^2}}\right\}$$

On the other hand,

$$\|p\| - \phi(p^\ast p)^{\frac{1}{2}} = 1 - |\langle v, e_1 \rangle|$$

Set $1 - |\langle v, e_1 \rangle| = \delta$ and $\epsilon = \frac{\sqrt{\delta}}{6}$, then,

$$d(p, U) \geq \frac{1}{2}\min\left\{\frac{\sqrt{\delta}}{6}, \sqrt{1 - (1 - \delta)^2} - \frac{\sqrt{\delta}}{3} - 2\sqrt{2 - 2\sqrt{1 - \frac{\delta}{9}}}\right\}$$

Performing a series expansion, it is not hard to see that the RHS behaves as $\frac{\sqrt{\delta}}{12}$ as $\delta \to 0$. But $d(p, U) \leq R(\|p\| - \phi(p^\ast p)^{\frac{1}{2}}) = R\delta$. This is a contradiction as $\delta \to 0$.

David Gao
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  • Thank you! This makes sense. I won’t get into it here, but if it were true in general, it would have radical (and probably untrue) consequences for filtrations with the rapid decay property. My guess is you’re familiar with this. Any thoughts on conditions which can ensure the inequality? – Miles Gould Aug 11 '25 at 05:22
  • Do you think pure states ensure this? It seems that the necessary conditions are very similar to the weak stability of $\phi(x^*x)^\frac{1}{2}$ from my last post. – Miles Gould Aug 11 '25 at 18:04
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    @MilesGould I just edited my answer to show that the answer is no even for vector states on $M_2(\mathbb{C})$. Given this, I don’t think there are any reasonable conditions that can ensure the inequality. – David Gao Aug 13 '25 at 03:23
  • Thank you so much! I really need to improve my ability in constructing examples. I think abelian and pure guarantees it, since the GNS representation is 1 dimensional in this case. In this light, convex combinations of pure states work as well. – Miles Gould Aug 14 '25 at 01:22
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    @MilesGould That’s true. I suppose the most general version of this is that the result holds for any finite convex combinations of characters on possibly nonabelian $C^\ast$-algebras. The constant $R$ I got is $\frac{1}{\epsilon}$ with $\epsilon$ being the smallest coefficient in the convex combination. – David Gao Aug 14 '25 at 02:44
  • It also seems like $M=1$ is causing unique issues, so perhaps for sufficiently large $M$, we find more weak stability. By the way, I knew you were coathor on a paper about selflessness, but I didn't realize it got into rapid decay explicitly. I hope I didn't cause any offense! – Miles Gould Aug 14 '25 at 19:30
  • @MilesGould No offense taken. Just speaking for myself and not for my coauthors, rapid decay in our paper is just a technical tool borrowed from group theory that happens to be exactly what we needed. I know one of my coauthors and others later defined rapid decay for filtrations on $C^\ast$-algebras with states and developed that theory, though I wasn’t involved with that. I only know vaguely the definition in this generality and not much more. – David Gao Aug 15 '25 at 08:20
  • @MilesGould I feel like the two counterexamples both using $M=1$ is more of an accident than anything. It’s just quite hard to compute or even just lower bound $d(x,U)$ in general. It took me nearly a day to figure out exactly how to do that for the second counterexample. Just so happens that $M=1$ makes that computation doable. Given that, I doubt larger $M$ would make a difference. I haven’t figured out a counterexample, though. I’ll think about this a bit more. – David Gao Aug 15 '25 at 08:37
  • @MilesGould (Also, just out of curiosity, what was your motivation when you asked this question? Filtrations and rapid decay don’t really translate into model-theoretic language. Selflessness is known to not be preserved by elementary equivalence. It just doesn’t seem like there’s much there connecting rapid decay and model theory.) – David Gao Aug 15 '25 at 08:41
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    I’m writing a paper about the model theory of $C^$-algebras with states. There is a bit of model theory connecting to selflessness! For example, I showed that if you have a $\forall\exists$-axiomatizable class of simple $C^$-probability spaces, then the selfless subclass is also $\forall\exists$-axiomatizable. But yeah, I didn’t realize that rapid decay was not model-theoretic. I give a couple results about the extent to which filtrations cannot be definable sets. To your first reply, for my purposes, $M=1$ is an irrelevant case, so if it does become plausible for large $M$, let me know! – Miles Gould Aug 15 '25 at 15:30
  • @MilesGould We should probably continue the discussion in chat rather than in comments as the moderators do sometimes delete comments (or move them to chat) if there are too many. https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/161029/room-for-david-gao-and-miles-gould – David Gao Aug 15 '25 at 17:23